Talk:List of powercreeped cards

About sorting cards

So previously the sorting was Neutrals first than all classes in alphabetical order which looked neat, now they're sorted by the time they were introduced, and even though it's easier to edit, it actually looks worse because of how of a mess it is. Should it stay that way or be reverted to previous norm? Adusak90 (talk) 16:43, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

• It wasn't even sorted alphabetically before. --96.67.147.214 17:16, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

• • I was about to start sort things out to make it all follow the same trend, most of these already were following the trend except of the newest addons to the mix. The 2/3s and 3/2s for example. Adusak90 (talk) 19:40, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Should Pilfer be powercreeped by Hallucination and Swashburglar

Pilfer is said to be powercreeped by both Hallucination and Swashburglar, is it though? Pilfer works differently than these two by giving you card from any class other than rogue, while the two other cards still work with the old burgle mechanic and gives you cards specifically from the enemy hero's class. Is this difference small enough to justify the powercreep?Adusak90 (talk) 02:46, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

That entry was created before Pilfer was changed. No, it does not constitute a powercreep anymore as they have different positive effects, and those positive effects cannot be evaluated against each other. Cactusisawesome (talk) 03:52, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Is silencing your own minions considered negative?

As in the title. The surge of 4 mana summoning copy of something spells actually made me discover, that Unsleeping Soul isn't present as powercreeped cards by both Molten Reflection and Germination. There is nothing about silencing allies counting as negative effect but there is still a counter-argument that it can make cards like Ancient Watcher better.

Logically silencing an ally according to rules already set about negative effects having specific combos (Like enraging minion via Whirlwind effects) should be considered negative and the combo ignored. I'm gonna leave this open if anyone wants to discuss it further.Adusak90 (talk) 16:02, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I think Unsleeping Soul should be kept off the list for the reasons you described. It's a sidegrade, and it's specifically design to be a sidegrade. However, given that, Storm's Wrath should be taken off the list as well.

Also note that Soul Split is a worse version of both Molten Reflection and Germination. TheMurlocAggroB (talk) 18:24, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I was thinking about it last night and got to conclusion, that we should treat it as negative. Since this page was ignoring sidegrades like tribes and overload (stating that overload is indeed negative, the same goes with discard). I'm open for further discussion, if you have any counter-arguments.Adusak90 (talk) 17:11, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Mo'arg Artificer

Should Mo'arg Artificer be listed as a power creep card? For reference, its a 2 mana 2/4 with text that 'technically' benefits both characters equally, whereas all other 2/4's: Argent Watchman, Nat, The Darkfisher, Vulgar Homunculus and Unpowered Mauler all have effects that, again usually, are bad for the player.

Effects that "technically" benefit both characters equally are not interpreted as not having effects. If that was so, cards like Coldlight Oracle and Jungle Moonkin would be powercreeped by many cards. Those type of effects are to be excluded from the list.Cactusisawesome (talk) 05:07, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Those types of cards are Good, and not Powercreep.

Twin Slice vs Heroic strike

After Twin Slice was added I had weird urge to add it as Pounce powercreep, now after the nerfs I feel like it is powercreeped Heroic Strike. Why? Well... if you think about it, Twin Slice can do exactly what Heroic Strike can and has upgrade of being able to choose if either you want 4 attack or just 2 attack now and 2 attack later on.

I was thinking that since we ignore Loatheb-like effects, shouldn't this be considered direct upgrade? Waiting for feedback. Adusak90 (talk) 20:49, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

This looks like a choose-one type situation. Since we put choose one cards like Druid of the Scythe as a card that powercreeps Squirming Tentacle, it makes sense to do the same with Twin Slice Cactusisawesome (talk) 10:44, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Surging Tempest vs. Tunnel Trogg?

The only time Surging Tempest isn't just a worst Tunnel Trogg, is when you play it the turn after you've played an overload card, and then your opponent wants to trade into it (or you give it rush or charge). I guess what I'm really asking is, is there ever any difference in mechanics so small that it can be safely ignored?

Are Worgens the same as Choose Ones?

Hi! Me again, this time, my issue is with Spellshifter and Dalaran Mage. The problem with listing the former as power creep over the latter is that you have no control over which form (Spellshifter) it will take. As such is it not that this is not "powercreep", in the sense that the cards do not, in fact, have the same statline.

I would say it's not powercreep then, since technically there could be some instances you want 1/4 minion instead of 4/1 Adusak90 (talk) 01:19, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Professor Slate

In my opinion, Professor slate shouldn't be on the list of powercreeped cards since the spell may be beneficial to attack your own minion and for it to survive (even in hunter's arsenal: Toxic Arrow), I'm deleting it out of list, if there is any arguments why it should stay I'm open for these Adusak90 (talk) 01:19, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Hammer of the Naaru vs. Lord of the Arena

A weapon that summons a better body on its battlecry than Lord of the Arena, but due to it being a weapon, it destroys your weapon (it wouldn't be better in cases you have a weapon like unharmed Ashbringer). Should it powercreep? Theoretically it is a better card on paper, should destroying your weapon cross it out, or is it too minor to include as a reason against? Adusak90 (talk) 12:10, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Rename?

For consistency of capitalization with the rest of the wiki, I think this article should be moved to List of powercreeped cards. - Linneris (talk) 13:33, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Onyxia

I'd argue that technically, Onyxia the Broodmother doesn't powercreep Onyxia because the first wave of whelps isn't summoned immediately, so you can't make use of them on the same turn — say, by trading one of your other minions and then playing Animated Broomstick. - Linneris (talk) 07:28, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

In terms of raw power, new Onyxia has strictly more, plus you can't play a Broomstick if you can't kill one of your minions to make room for it, so that's quite specific. Anyway, I don't think this should be taken too seriously ^^ -Mattheus 45 (talk) 08:37, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Does Illidari Inquisitor relate to King Krush?

I believe this is at most an outclass, not exactly a powercreep. Sure, pairing with a 1-cost Hero Attack buff (e.g., Second Slice, the basic or upgraded DH Hero Power) turns Green Rag into half a Charge+Windfury for 9-mana, but an OP combination of two plays isn’t a criterion to constitute powercreeping. Even if we discount scenarios where the Hero Power is replaced (e.g., Metamorphosis, Grizzled Wizard) or shut down (e.g., Mindbreaker, attacked with the Hero before playing the demon) by gameplay , Star Student Stelina might instead choose Illidari Strike or Outlander.

I put Illidari Inquisitor because of the combo with the Hero Power, but I understand if you removed it. This page isn't supposed to take into account advanced scenarios like the ones you describe, but feel free to adapt this case as you please. --Mattheus 45 (talk) 22:45, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Reörder cards to reflect chains of powercreeping?

With a handful of powercreeped powercreepers, I’d prefer having the cards not constrained to categorizing by cost, but have each most-basic (no pun intended) powercreeped card the main header and a card that powercreep them but also themselves powercreeped as a sub-header.

Example:

1. Booty Bay Bodyguard
   • Evil Heckler
     • Injured Marauder
   • Druid of the Claw
   • …

⸺ ParadoxV5 (talk) 18:21, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

The problem with this presentation is that the cards themselves get harder to find.I still think Mana-Alphabetical order remains the best way of presenting the cards. --Mattheus 45 (talk) 22:45, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Whirlpool and dredge

Whrilpool in my opinion shouldn't powercreep Twisting Nether, since it can destroy copies of your minions too, which can be a negative.

I'm also sceptical about dredge being strictly positive keyword, as you don't want to always dredge, ex. you put a powerful card on the top, you would probably want to not dredge again to not cover that powerful card. This one is more for speculation. Adusak (talk) 22:12, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Yes for Whirlpool. Dredge is still better than nothing in my opinion, it's like the Astromancer Solarian being worse than a 3/2 spell damage, because sometimes you don't want to shuffle an OP card into your deck, and same for faelin too. The flexibility it gives still makes a 3/2 dredge stronger than a standard 3/2 to me. --Mattheus 45 (talk) 19:20, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Cruel Taskmaster

Is Cruel Taskmaster actually powercreeping the vanilla 2/3s? His effect is rather questionable, there could be multiple instances where his battlecry is actually a detriment (like literally enemy having minions over 1 health and you not, or if you have a 1-health minions and enemy has none and at least the first one is rather common so it's not very specific scenario like with dredge). In my opinion it should at least be put into question Adusak (talk) 10:20, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

No, there is a good and a bad effect, so it can't be put into the list over cards like River Crocolisk or Ironforge Rifleman. --Mattheus 45 (talk) 14:12, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Ivus and forbidden ritual

Why were these cards removed from War Golem, Faceless Behemoth and Desert Hare respetively? I thought the whole reason this page exist is to IGNORE combos and other random factors like these. This is especially true with Ivus vs Faceless Behemoth example where the Ivus always ends up with straight up better stats Adusak (talk) 19:25, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

They were removed because they consume all mana and so is inflexible say when you want to slap a Mark of the Wild after the summon. Although, I see your reasoning that I don’t know if this is excluded by the definition of powercreep (which is stricter than ‘outclass’) or not, especially for Faceless Behemoth since it costs all of your mana at its base. ⸺ ParadoxV5 20:22, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Runes

Do we ignore Death Knight Runes when considering cards or not? In my opinion, I think we should. Runes are a deckbuilding restriction, but they're closer to playing a different class than having to warp your deck. A Frost DK is going to have a different pool of cards than a Blood DK, but only in the same way that a Rogue has a different pool of cards than a Demon Hunter. Class restrictions are currently ignored completely, which I believe Runes would fall under. TheMurlocAggroB (talk) 23:40, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

In my opinion, the cards with runes are made much more powerful than other cards would be (especially true for full mono rune cards), it was specified in the class reveal, that these cards were so good, they had to be restricted to that degree. I wanted to discuss it when we have only few Death Knight cards revealed, so if we come to conclusion that this is just stretching it under "it's just class restriction" it will be easier to add it back. It will become really weird, when they start to add cards that are better versions of cards that needs more of the same rune for example. But I guess now when you mention it as "sub-classes" of Death Knight I can see why it could be ignored. Adusak (talk) 01:13, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

I was under the impression that it's more so that you can't put all the best cards in one deck, not that multi-runed cards are inherently stronger than other class cards. I don't think any of the rune cards are particularly above the power curve, but obviously putting all of them in one deck would be too much (a problem Demon Hunter had a launch). TheMurlocAggroB (talk) 02:04, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Fan cards

In my opinion, Obsessive Fan and Rowdy Fan aren't strictly powercreep, since they may be forced to give the beneficial effects to enemy minion in order to be playedAdusak (talk) 23:31, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

You're right, I removed them. --Mattheus 45 (talk) 12:52, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Hir'eek, the Bat < Shu'ma and Ozumat?

compare #Onyxia for Shu'ma’s case

⸺ParadoxV5 22:33, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Hir'eek summons copies of himself, which means he can pass handbuffs on to the summoned minions. That even is Hir'eek's intended design (even if he did turn out very underpowered). It's the same reason Nerubian Swarmguard isn't listed, since it can pass along Blood Tap while Burden of Pride cannot. TheMurlocAggroB (talk) 01:56, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

This article needs to be split up

This article is one of the laggiest on the wiki. Loading the page from a fresh cache almost always results in a gateway timeout error, and the template include size is exceeded due to the high amount of {{Card}} templates being used.

Before doing anything, if the people who regularly edit this page have some suggestions, have at it. I was thinking of making two seperate pages, "List of powercreeped cards/1-3 mana" and "List of powercreeped cards/4+ mana" for a somewhat even split for the amount of cards. Then this page would include links to those pages instead for the lists of cards. VGhost01 (talk) 14:16, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Might as well just split into up to 11 pages, one for each mana cost (i.e. each current heading). ParadoxV5 21:52, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

11 pages is a bit too many I think. VGhost01 (talk) 14:26, 23 July 2023 (UTC)