Talk:Transform

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Druid of the Claw[edit source]

I believe Druid of the Claw actually TRANSFORMS into one of his form, when played, because if you silence him, he never returns to the original state. Shouldn't he be listed below? I know there is no word TRANSFORM in this card, but i believe it was implemented that way and thus should be included here. 85.193.225.222 09:11, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

I agree, it does seem to be a transform effect. I've altered the pages accordingly. -- Taohinton (talk) 11:56, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Warsong Commander[edit source]

Currently on the page, it says Transform effects do not Summon minions, but if that were true, then it should not be possible for cards like  Warsong Commander to give the  Frog it transforms into from  Hex Charge (source). I believe this is a bug however with  Warsong Commander since  Knife Juggler and  Sword of Justice indeed does not trigger when a  Polymorph is used on a friendly minion (source). I believe it is intended by the developers for  Warsong Commander to give  Faceless Manipulator charge after it transforms even though technically by transforming, it should overwrite any buffs it got from being summoned (the way Warsong Commander works is that it give minions charge before its battlecry), which to me explains the bug. Interesting to note is that  Sword of Justice activates after Battlecry despite having similar text to  Warsong Commander. Regardless, bug or not, there should be a note about this. --Eroubis (talk) 03:58, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Just got confirmation from Ben Brode that this is a bug. I believe the Faceless one is a bug too; transforms remove all enchants, just like Polymorph, Hex, etc. I can't see it being intended for Faceless to be different. I've added a note to Warsong Commander re: the bug. -- Taohinton (talk) 08:24, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
I just figured Faceless was the reason why the WC bug exists in the first place since it goes with idea of allowing cards like  Bloodsail Raider to have charge despite coming into play above the 3 attack mark. Otherwise, Faceless can never have charge off of WC even if you faceless your opponent's 3/2 causing confusion and anxiety in people, which Blizzard doesn't want. It will affect certain WC decks now if they fix it, but either way, Faceless and Hex I think is the same bug.
One last thing I want to bring up is  Mimiron's Head. It's not out yet, but I just want to put this out there. The card text uses the word "form" instead of "summon". Still, I'm pretty sure it's going to be a summon effect since it does specify the mechs get destroyed, but it should get tested eventually anyway. --Eroubis (talk) 09:47, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
Do you have a source for the Faceless/WC interaction? I'm curious if it happens every time or just sometimes; if it does one time and doesn't another, there's a bug in there somewhere. The normal interaction is that transform removes and replaces all buffs, card text, minion type, stats. So the WC would (I think) give triggered effect to the original Faceless, but the buff would then be lost when it transformed. The other possible intended interaction would be if the WC's effect was triggered prior to the Battlecry, but not granted until after; but this sounds a bit weird. At any rate I've tweeted Ben Brode about it, we'll see if he gets back to me.
With Mimiron it's quite possible you're right. At least 2 of the minions must be destroyed, but it's possible the head transforms into the V-07-TR-0N. I've asked Brode about that too. -- Taohinton (talk) 02:09, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Okay, Ben Brode has confirmed that the Faceless/WC interaction is a bug.[1] Also, V-07-TR-0N is indeed summoned, despite the card's wording.[2] -- Taohinton (talk) 16:18, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Theoretical distinction between transforms[edit source]

"Since transformation currently has no synergies or related effects, any theoretical distinction between different types of transform effect is moot. This also makes it unimportant whether or not a card technically uses a transform effect, although the general rules do seem to be consistent across all known examples."

I found this paragraph vague and confusing, so I've removed it. One may just as easily say "Any theoretical distinction between different types of silence effect is moot", or "summon effect", or whatever. EVERY theoretical distinction is moot until some difference can be observed! Similarly there is no reason to even bring up whether a card "technically" uses a transform effect when no contradictory results have been reported. Perhaps if I knew what these differences are that people have "theorized", I would better understand what this was talking about.

Also, transforms can synergize with and/or counter return effects, and counter resurrection effects and friendly silences, so I would hardly say it has "no synergies or related effects". -Jerodast (talk) 03:52, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, we no longer have need of that section. It was written in relation to then-speculation regarding cards which did not actually use the word 'transform', and whether they did in fact operate via a slightly different mechanic (indicated by the different wording); this has since been confirmed not to be the case by Ben Brode, with the section a hangover. The reference to synergies and related effects is correct, in the strict sense; while any cards in the game could be used in combination in order to provide additional benefits or synergy, there are no cards or effects which relate specifically to transform effects, e.g. no "Whenever you Transform a minion..." or "Battlecry: Grant all Transformed minions +1/+1" type effects. -- Taohinton (talk) 20:44, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Ah I see the intent now, thank you. I guess instead of "synergy" (which I think of as a strategic term) I would've used the more rules/mechanics-oriented "triggered by" or "target".
But since the paragraph is gone...any theoretical distinction between the wordings is moot :)- jerodast (talk) 23:00, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Transform vs Summon[edit source]

I believe we need additional clarification on which "summon" effects do and which do not apply on transformation. The page already mentions  Knife Juggler and  Starving Buzzard NOT triggering on a transformation. However, I believe I have seen  Darkshire Councilman get buffed twice when playing a minion into a  Potion of Polymorph (not 100% sure I remember correctly). And according to https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hearthstone/topic/20758457255, evolving a full board and rolling an  Unlicensed Apothecary will damage you for 5 for each minion.

This all appears very inconsistent. If someone truly understands the rules at work here, can they chime in and explain?

BigHugger (talk) 09:26, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

I'm not too familiar with this behavior as well, but I'll provide some links here which aim to describe this behavior.
Aegonostic (talk) 16:57, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
Okay, I tried to describe the behaviour in as simple a way as I could.
I left the interqactions with Potion of Polymorph and Transmute Spirit open. I plan to test the former when I have time and a willing opponent. I cannot test the latter as I don't have the Shaman DK cards and don't plan to craft it.
BigHugger (talk) 20:07, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Wrong cards in card list[edit source]

I removed "|addabilities=Transform" from  Plague Lord, but it still shows up in the "Cards with Trasform" section.

I checked  Thrall, Deathseer, he already is tagged as having transform ("|addabilities=Transform, Replace Hero Power, Gain Armor"), yet he does not show up in that same list.

Apparently I do still not understand how those dynamic card lists work... :( -- BigHugger (talk) 19:03, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Transform doesn't show up on Plague Lord here on my end. Aegonostic (talk) 19:13, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
It is now gone from the list on this page. Must have been some very slow caching issue or so.
I still no not understand, though, why  Thrall, Deathseer is not included in the card list on this page. -- BigHugger (talk) 21:31, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
It seems like the new hero card type doesn't show up in any card table. After some digging through page histories, I think you have discovered this as well.
Another example case for reference:  Malfurion the Pestilent doesn't show up in the card table in Choose One.
Hero cards seem to be tagged with "category=hero" and with "type=Hero card", but the latter is not going through to a card table.
Card table shows up in article Hero card: {{List cards|format=standard|category=Hero|collectible=true}}
Hero card datapages have property [[Has card type::Hero card]] (e.g. Data:Cards/Malfurion the Pestilent(62904) )
Semantic search confirms query [[Has card type::Hero card]] works.
Hero Power, Enchantment, and Hero also work.
After doing some more digging, it seems querying for {{List cards|type=Hero Power}} works, but not " Hero | Enchantment | Hero card = " in {{List cards}}.
Parser function syntax seems correct: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions#Grouping_results
{{Custom card table}} is not going through with query.
{{Cards}} isn't going through with the visual display of cards.
This works: {{List cards|query=[[Has card type::Hero card]]}}
This works: {{List cards|query=[[Has card type::Hero card]][[Has abilities::Choose One]]}}
This doesn't work: {{Custom card table|type=Hero card}}
This works: {{Custom card table|type=Hero Power}}
This doesn't work: {{Cards|type=Hero card}}
This works: {{Cards|type=Hero Power}}
In short, I have no idea how to fix this problem. Gonna go sleep now. >__< Aegonostic (talk) 13:25, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
Sleep well :) -- and thanks for trying!
Based on what you wrote near the end, I replaced {{Cards|type=Hero Power}} with {{Cards|category=Hero}}. That does work to give me the list of all nine hero cards.
However, I have no clue how to use that finding for getting the other card lists fixed. {{List cards|format=standard|ability=Transform}} does not include any filtering on either type or category, so why would the hero cards not be listed? -- BigHugger (talk) 14:26, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
Added: I looked through all the templates used when previewing a page with {{List cards|format=standard|ability=Transform}} to see if one of those categories perhaps include a list of all "valid" categories that is used when no specific category is given. However, this does not appear to be the case.
However, I do feel that I am on to something. If not in the templates, then perhaps somewhere else a list of all categories is stored, and Hero is missing.
I tihnk this is the case because of the following:
{{Cards||category=Hero|class=Hunter|mana=6}} - shows Deathstalker Rexxar.
{{Cards||class=Hunter|mana=6}} - shows Ball of Spiders and Savannah Highmane, but not Deathstalker Rexxar.
So perhaps an admin can find if we have a list of all the defined categories somewhere, and add "Hero" as a new category?? -- BigHugger (talk) 14:41, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
Hmm, I think I remember User:Taohinton saying that "category" is a weird parameter.
What you wrote up at the end sounds interesting. It does seem like something is happening to parameter "category", and maybe parameter "type", to make certain card queries unreachable.
For reference:


{{Cards|category=Hero|class=Hunter|mana=6}} (Shows  Deathstalker Rexxar only)
{{Cards|class=Hunter|mana=6}} (Weirdness: Doesn't show Deathstalker Rexxar)
{{Cards|type=Hero Power}} (Works)
{{Cards|type=Enchantment}} (Weirdness: Doesn't work)
{{Cards|type=Hero}} (Weirdness: Doesn't work)
{{Cards|type=Hero card}} (Weirdness: Doesn't work)
Aegonostic (talk) 02:12, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
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